Ashia
Hello friends!

Bellamy
Hello?

Ashia
Whut? Wha…We were just briefly talking before we started this, to remember to center a goal of making an enthusiasticlly crappy podcast. So let’s set the baseline. Lower the bar, and try not to outdo ourselves. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
Welcome to our enthusiastically crappy podcast with Raising Luminaries and Revolutionary Humans. We are on season two focused on collaboration and collective work this spring. This is Ashia Ray, and today we’re in cahoots with our partner in do-goodery, Bellamy Shoffner. Yeah!!

Bellamy
Woo, yeah, that’s me.

Ashia
[laughter] So much enthusiasm.

Bellamy
So happy to be here. [laughter]

Ashia
So last week’s episode was on being a better accomplice on social media. And we talked about how social media creates the illusion of connection while trapping the folks that we want to support. [laughter] And then how to make space for our community members to leave toxic digital spaces if they so choose.

So in this episode, we’re going to learn how to mind your own damn business. And then three creepy parenting habits common in our generation and how to cut it out.

Also, good ideas to avoid

Bellamy
doo de doo do do! [laughter]

Ashia
We need, like,an enthusiasticlly crappy theme song for this podcast, but I don’t know what that would sound like.

Bellamy
Yeah, I can’t even imagine. I can write a rap.

Ashia
[laughter] Nice! A crappily… enthusiastically crappy rap?

Bellamy
Yeah, I could do that. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] Don’t promise that if you’re not gonna follow through.

Bellamy
You never know. I write songs. Like every day. No one hears them. But my kids and they think they’re great.

Ashia
I did not know that!

Bellamy
Mmhmm.

Ashia
We learn new things about our friends every day.

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] Okay, so um, our friend Rachel G, who was in the winter incubator with us, has been such a great supporter and a lovely person. And she responded to one of my Patreon posts, which was the post about ‘8 small actions to make a bigass difference this April.’

And one of the things I asked is ‘What three things do you need to change this year?’

So she had this amazing, wonderful comment, which was “Suffocating parenting,” which is “I find myself way to all up in my kids business and I’d like to take a few big steps back and let them be well, themselves.”

Which is wisdom. pure wisdom. [laughter] Because I feel the same, right? Because our kids needed us to do every single thing for them when they were little, and it’s hard to remember like, Oh, right. They are no longer one year old. And parenting looks different as our kids get older.

Bellamy
Yup, yup. [laughter]

Ashia
Like I hadn’t figured out! Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. So those reminders and for anyone who needs accountability, and just a reminder to like back off, this podcast is for you. [laughter]

So today, we’re gonna cover why we need to stop meddling in our kids business, and how that connects with raising kind and courageous leaders to smash the kyriarchy. Hhow we ourselves are complicit in infantilizing our kids with privilege – and also weaponizing childhood innocence to maintain the kyriarchy.

Then we’re going to try to quickly address how to transform our most selfish parenting habits into good trouble. And then we’ll send you into the world with an assignment.

So Bellamy [breath] How are you doing with raising older kids and trying to back off?

Bellamy
I think I’m doing relatively well. This is an exciting topic for me. Because I’ve also been forced to have to step back.

I became a single parent as they became older kids. And so I don’t have the ability or capacity or even the want to be involved in all of their, many of their daily choices or interactions and things like that.

And then at the same time, as a homeschooler. I’m also constantly with them. So there’s a little bit of that too. Where it may sound like I’m contradicting myself, but I think that I tend to – big picture I think I want to protect them from schools that are going to send them straight to prison. I want to protect them from kidnappers and big big things.

And then when it comes to the smaller stuff, I’m like, “Well guess you’re gonna figure it out.” So that is my balance and I think I do okay with it. With my older son I do wish he had more time away from the family. But that’s also a byproduct of of COVID times.

Ashia
Yeah. Yes. And the COVID times make everything so much more complicated! [laughter]

Okay. Yeah, I have… I’m so confused. I don’t know how to be a parent anymore. Not like I ever had a handle on it. I want to be clear, I was – never have been, never will be an expert on this. But like, I want my kids to wipe their own bums. Aaaaugh!

I want them to be able to, like, brush their teeth without me reminding them. At what point does it become their responsibility that their teeth are gonna run out of their heads? But also, I need to protect them. I want them to roam free range. But also my kid is Autistic. And he freaks people out and someone’s gonna call the cops on him! Yeah, I have no idea.

Let’s figure it out. We have we have less than an hour, let’s figure it out.

Bellamy
We’re gonna solve all the problems right now.

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
There we go. [laughter]

Ashia
Dynamic Duo! So, WHY we need to stop meddling in our kids business to raise courageous and resilient leaders. And I think all of us know this. But for any like, people who are… probably not listening to this podcast, here’s the arguments that you can give to your friends who are hovercraft and snowplow parents, or whatever the latest shaming title is for parents.

You can use these as your talking points. So raising kids to dismantle the kyriarchy requires resilience training, right? Which requires tapping into previous experiences. So kids can self-regulate, through panic, maintain hope in the face of despair and overwhelm, get curious about pain and discomfort – reaching into that growth zone! And then somehow tap into some level of resilience. So we can keep fighting despite overwhelming force.

We’ll talk about how being too involved in our kids lives actually hinders our kids from becoming the people that we want them to be, and they would like to be.

So when we’re talking about how… there’s so many fun words. Like the snowplow parent, which I lean towards, and I have to back myself off. Shoveling everything out of their path. So that way, I don’t have to deal with the tantrum later. [laughter]

And then I guess, what was it, helicopter and hovercraft parents? The parents who like, to, just hover?

Bellamy
Don’t hover, yeah.

Ashia
Not a hoverer. That’s, that’s one thing I can manage to say. I’m just like, “Please go away.

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
But if we think about why is this urgent that we actually address it now? Why can we not wait a couple of months or a year to start backing off?

For targeted kids, for kids who do face injustice in society, one of the things that keeps us surrounding our kids, or being really nervous about letting our kids go out and get hurt, is generational trauma, right?

If we can’t process our own trauma in a healthy way, we’re just going to hand that off – that’s what generational trauma is, right. And we don’t want them to have all the baggage that we have. That’s part of being a transformative parent, right.

And then there’s also the soft bigotry of low expectations. So if we’re expecting, and I uuugh, I see this all the time – allistic parents who are brand new to the concept of disability or having a disabled family member, where they’re like, “Oh, my autistic child doesn’t speak, my autistic child doesn’t communicate.” which is not true. Everyone communicates. But also the idea that because your autistic child is not currently able to get a law degree, they never will be able to get a law degree. There are autistic lawyers out there. So clearly, sometime between birth and adulthood, we do learn how [laughter]

Bellamy
I’m sorry, something. [laughter] Something changed. So many years, something changed, right? Like something. [laughter]

Ashia
I mean, as parents, we kind of expect our kids to be like this forever, like, “Oh my God, you’re never gonna get potty trained!” And you know, some people don’t – and that’s okay.

But you know, like, you have this idea of like – because they need you to wash all their dishes for them. now means you’re gonna have to do it forever. But you have this idea if your kid is developing along…whatever the average pace is. They’re like, “Okay, they’ll grow out of this.”

But for some reason, parents with autistic kids just kind of see us as like, “Oh no, this is what autism is. And they’re going to be autistic forever. So they’re going to be toddling around like two year olds forever.”

It’s like no, they will be autistic…adults. So that creates that soft bigotry of low expectations and that’s part of where that that cliff comes from. So there’s this concept of the cliff – once you lose all of the legal stuff towards being in public education setting or something like that, you fall off the cliff. And suddenly you have to be an adult because you’re 18. And no one trained you to be an adult, because they were so focused on training you to make all the allistic people around you happy – as opposed to basic life skills. And this applies for all kinds of targeted identities. But that was the most salient ridiculous one that I can think of.

Bellamy
From the good one. Yeah.

Ashia
Teachers do this too. Like, they expect less of Black kids, Indigenous kids, and Latinx kids, right? So what is that? What does that teach our kids about stereotype threat and about what they are capable of themselves?

So for kids with privilege, also kind of kneecaps them but only in a way that hurts targeted kids. Part of supremacy culture is that expectation of comfort where white kids should never cry, or our kids should never get hurt, or face… maybe not mortal danger, but like discomfort? Or actual broken relationships? Or acknowledge the harm that they have done that they’ll never be able to fix right?

So there’s this expectation that some kids have a right to comfort and some kids don’t. And there’s entire studies about prioritizing innocence – particularly in white children, where their innocence (not learning about race not learning about injustice, not learning about the harm that they are choosing to do) is more important than actually understanding how they contribute and what roles they play in what power they hold. And that is a form of, I don’t know, snowplow parenting? There’s got to be a word for that, that isn’t just white parenting [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] No let’s call it that. Let’s call it white parenting.

Ashia
[laughter] So there’s gonna be like…I want to be like me… miasma parenting? There’s like a miasma around … like a blob. Bouncy ball parenting? Where you surround your child in a bouncy ball?

Bellamy
[laughter] I don’t know why it reminded me of like that, that bubble soccer where you put the bubble on and just, I don’t know.

Ashia
Bubble Soccer Parenting!!

[laughter] Bubble soccer parenting! [laughter]

You’re bouncing off other people. You’re running them over, you’re sending them across the field. [laughter] And you’re okay.

Bellamy
Yup. Yup. And you’re perfectly okay. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] And both of these, everyone is impacted by this – because we’re raising our kids to have learned helplessness. Think of how many parents for how many generations have raised their assigned male at birth children to be like, “Oh, I don’t know how to do that… dishes that’s too hard for me”

Or like “I’m not a natural caregiver.” And the same thing with how we teach our feminine kids about car maintenance and changing the oil right? Ugh! [laughter]

And then all of this is rooted in scarcity and ignorance That idea that staying ignorant is safer for everybody ,or even that there’s only so much power and therefore if we acknowledge our power, then we’ll lose it. [laughter]

Bellamy
Right right.

Ashia
Not disclaimer. Scaffolding or something but – be kind to yourself. And be kind to others. I know that this is a common parenting issue – the the need to protect our kids, but also wondering what to let go of.

So when we find ourselves beating up on ourselves, or judging other parents about coddling. Just reality check that what looks like ‘coddling’ might be, and probably actually is a trauma response from our own childhoods, and from the stories we grow up hearing about families like ours.

Or the only, or best protection against actual real dangerous systemic injustice, such as the school to prison pipeline. People are like “You keep your kids home? Homeschooling is coddling!” It’s keeping them out of prison.

Bellamy
Just trying to keep them out of jail. That’s all. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] Just trying to keep ’em out of jail. And a lot of people, especially if they don’t have a history of teachers physically and mentally abusing their students, they don’t really understand how dangerous public schools can be right? Like, how many people have had a teacher strangle them? [laughter]

Bellamy
Right, right.

Ashia
Now, while I grew up thinking that was a common occurrence and everyone experiences it at least once. Apparently, some don’t.

Bellamy
Turns out, it’s not. I had a teacher once told tell best friend’s class that I was a prostitute.

Wow.

Does that happen to everybody? Probably not. Seems like no. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] What topic were they studying!?

Bellamy
How I got involved in the conversation in a class that I was not in? I don’t know. I don’t know. I do have a history of making a big splash wherever I go [laughter] whether I intend to or not.

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
And apparently, whatever happened led to led to a teacher tirade about me being a prostitute. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
To the point where my friend was like, “He was talking about you.” So I don’t know how specific it was. But he knew it was about me.

Ashia
Just so bizarre.

Bellamy
So bizarre. But yeah, teachers should not ever strangle. Or, I don’t know. Because I don’t care if someone’s a prostitute, but the teacher obviously was saying it to be a harmful thing.

Ashia
The things that people do is ridiculous. And that’s more big things. But there’s softer things, right? There’s just just that expectation that some kids aren’t going to do that well. Or some teachers saying, ‘take it easy, on some kids. And ‘You can do better on this’ to other kids.

But that that response, like we said, keeping our kids out of these spaces might look like an extreme response. But it’s, it’s sometimes the only option, right?

And then there’s also picking our battles wisely. Like I still wash my seven year old’s hair in the shower, because it’s hard to get him in there. And if he’s gonna be in there, I really need the…what is it? Ketchup? I need the ketchup out of there so he doesn’t rub it on my pillow.

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
That’s not just a him problem? It affects me. Gross. So you know, every time I’m like, “Okay, when you’re 14, I need you to figure this out.” Let’s just get this over with because I need to start dinner. And then we need to get to bed.

Bellamy
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I have to wash my kid’s hair because they have Black hair. And it would be almost impossible for them to do it by themselves. But that’s the thing. That’s like a have to do. Do I go in and like scrub them down? No. But if I have to suffer through the hair washing, which I personally hate, [laughter] I’m not doing a great service to them by doing it. None of us like it.

Ashia
I don’t know, I’m hoping at some point they grow into the age where their arms can detect… all of the parts of their body.

Bellamy
Right. Right.

Ashia
[laughter] I want it to be age 4. Apparently it’s not.

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
Many of the grown men I have dated. I’m not sure all people actually grow into it. So.

Bellamy
Maybe never, maybe never. Yeah, same, but plus – afros, which are just so hard. And they just keep letting the afros get bigger and I’m like, “or you could cut it?”

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
Anyway. Yeah, that’s a [laughter] personal struggle. [laughter]

Ashia
Yeah, my oldest wears his hair super long and he won’t brush it. So I’m like, “That’s a you problem. But it’s also a me problem.” Because I’m getting notes home about you looking neglected.

Bellamy
Right, right. I’m like, “You understand you can’t go out like this. We don’t care if people judge us. But we do care if someone takes you away. [laughter] Your hair has not been brushed in six months.” [laughter]

Ashia
And also you don’t want to traumatize them and be like “THE GOVERNMENT’S COMING FOR YOU! GRAB YOUR GUNS.” [laughter]

Bellamy
Right. [laughter] There’s a real fine line there. Really. Like “I need you to be worried. And also not like, unnecessarily tortured” Like age inappropriate. Like “Hey, CPS will come for us.” Yep.

Ashia
Okay, so be kind to yourselves, be kind to others. It’s okay to pick your battles wisely. It’s never okay to judge someone else…. I mean you can judge them if you want.

[whispers] you can silently judge them.

[laughter]

If the kid is not a danger, just leave it alone. Okay. So, oh, oh!

[sings] doo doo doo doo doo Super Good ideas to avoid segment!

Bellamy
Doo doo do.

Ashia
Okay, so and I’m sorry, I’m just picking these random. I’m the one who’s choosing them Bellamy feel free to interject with any good ideas to avoid. [laughter]

I sent a series of texts and videos to Bellamy yesterday of my haircut. My haircut is a good idea… to avoid.

Bellamy
Oh well I think it’s such a great idea!

Ashia
So, past history, I grew up in a hair salon, so I don’t pay for haircuts because that’s ridiculous. [laughter] I’m like “I can do that!”

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
I cannot. [laughter]

So typically, I usually cut my own hair. But I have something apparently called ‘frozen shoulder’ where my left shoulder will not rise more than 30 degrees away from my body, which means I have not been able to deal with my hair in about 10 months or so? So I’ve been keeping it shaved. And then I grew it out and it turned into… I don’t know, when you google ‘Asian hair that sticks straight out of your head.’ That’s what it looks like. It is not attractive like an afro.

Very specific Google. [laughter]

[laughter] It is commonly called an Asian-fro. But if you search for a Asian fro you get Asian people with perms. So [laughter]

Bellamy
Oh yeah. Not what you’re going for. Yeah. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] So it just doesn’t look good. It looks..just bad. I can’t think of a better word. I’m trying to grow it out, without being able to slick it down with gel or do anything [that requires arms]. It’s awful. So I finally lost my patience.

And I’m like, you know, what we have in our house? …Is a Flowbee. [laughter] I’m not sure if you guys are familiar with daytime infomercials from the 90s…

Bellamy
I mean who.. wait, no, I’m sorry. Who doesn’t know what a Flowbee is? How is that possible?

Ashia
Rich people, I think.

Bellamy
Oh, okay. Okay.

Ashia
They’re not watching trash TV in the middle of the day. They have summer camp.

Bellamy
Okay, but I’m just. Oh! Yeah, that makes sense.

[laughter]

But like, I bet rich people have Flowbees

Ashia
No, they have hairdressers!

Bellamy
Oh.

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
Mmm. Okay. [laughter]

And I know they have hairdressers because I grew up in a hair salon and all my mom’s clients were super wealthy. I’m like, “You paid how much for a haircut?!?” [laughter]

[laughter] You’re like, “Never! I’m buying a Flowbee!” [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] Flowbees really stuck in my mind because my mom was so disgusted by this concept. She’s like, “How DARE” [laughter]

[laughter]

“It’s not going to end up okay!” And it’s true. It doesn’t.

Most people have terrible haircuts. So my partner, however, has this very fine, straight hair that does not stand up enough for me to buzz it? It just flops over? I don’t know. It’s, it’s weird. So I was like, during the pandemic, and I can’t raise my shoulder. I can’t cut his hair. I’m like, I know. I’ll buy him a Flowbee. A pandemic Flowbee. [laughter]

[laughter] We need a segment about pandemic purchases.

Also, George Clooney uses a Flowbee. And he cuts his own hair. And he’s famous for his haircut.

Bellamy
I have heard this.

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
Checks out.

Unknown Speaker
[laughter] Just his haircut.

Bellamy
[laughter] He’s famous for nothing else. No. We wouldn’t know him otherwise.

Ashia
I don’t know that much about him. He seems like a nice guy. His wife seems cool. But then I heard he has a Flowbee and I’m like, “Damn, that’s a down to earth man.” [laughter]

Bellamy
Yup. Yup. Thats a guy I want to know.

Ashia
[laughter] Or do you? [laughter]

Bellamy
No. [laughter] No. [laughter]

Ashia
So we have this Flowbee in my house, it works wonders on my partner’s hair. It is lovely. However, it is not – and they do quietly in the sidelines on the website be like,

[whispers] “This is not for… textured hair.”

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
It’s their very white way of saying ‘This is only for white people.’ [laughter]

Bellamy
Right. [laughter] Teeny tiny print.

Ashia
[laughter] So, with my stiff, thick Asian hair.My hair just mocks the Flowbee. I have to wiggle it in to get it into the little suction tube. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] I just want to say that I know whoever is listening to this podcast when they started this podcast, they did not expect that they were gonna get a Flowbee anti tutorial. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] It’s wonderful for white hair! Go for it!

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
All the beauty stuff like laser hair treatments, and Flowbees and all kinds of things – all made for white people. [laughter]

Bellamy
Yeah. No one else exists.

Ashia
So I’m like, okay, I can’t cut my hair. I cannot manage this hairdo. I can only cut the right side of my head, but not the left. [laughter]

[laughter]

I know what to do –

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
– I’ll use the Flowbee!

Bellamy
[laughter] But also who’s like, “This is terrible. I know what I’ll make it better -“

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] – Add flowbee! [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] I also have not been sleeping and maybe I’m not thinking that straight because the frozen shoulder. [laughter] Like I wake up screaming sometimes, you know.

Bellamy
Oh so sad!

Ashia
[laughter] So I’m like I know what to do. I have this flowbee. Why not use it? I have a little shop-vac! You have to wear earplugs, it is so loud.

Bellamy
So this is the part that I wanted to understand – is a Flowbee connects to a regular vacuum?

Ashia
You need a strong vacuum though. So you need a shopvac.

Bellamy
So what the hell is the point of the flowbee part?

Ashia
So the Flowbee is a tube with a motorized, like, little tiny guillotines? [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] Okay [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] It’s little tiny guillotines in a chute

Oh, okay.

And your hair gets sucked into the chute and you hook it up to your vacuum cleaner. So while the guillotines are running – and that’s loud, then it sucks it into the vacuum. Which is also loud. And you’re in a bathroom. So GRRSHSHSSHSHGH! [motor sounds]

Bellamy
I just… I okay.

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
I just don’t know that I ever knew that people were dragging their vacuum [laughter] into the bathroom or whatever. And like, “I’m flowbee-ing. Bring the Hoover, It’s time to use the Flowbee!” I’m so…

Ashia
Or they’re cutting their hair in the garage. [laughter]

Bellamy
Or that. I just had no idea. Like [speechless] this. It really opens my eyes to a lot of things. It seems like [laughter] it seems like if you were going to like invent something like a Flowbee, the suction would be part of the invention.

Ashia
Yeah, they sell a separate vacuum cleaner. Unfortunately, during the pandemic, most flowbee parts were sold out. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] Super popular pandemic purchase.

Ashia
You want to buy stock in Flowbee for the next pandemic.

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
Or better, if you can afford it – join a bubble with your hairdresser. [laughter]

Bellamy
Right. That might really be the key.

Ashia
And it might save you a lot of grief AND my hair cut. So I can cut the right side, I cannot cut the left side. So I’m like “I know, I’ll use this Flowbee I have. I know it’s never worked for me in the past. But maybe!”

And it did – not.

Bellamy
[laughter] But. When he showed me your hair, what you said was “There’s less of it.” And that is true.

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
Isn’t that all we ever want from a haircut? We just want less of it. We don’t need it to be fancy. We don’t need anyone to be able to see it [laughter] without laughing [laughter] We just need there to be less [laughter] hair. [laughter] I think you accomplished it.

Ashia
Third worst haircut. Because growing up in a hair salon, you have assistants. It’s like almost an internship kind of situation. So the assistants need someone to practice on. So they practice on the daughters of the other hairdressers. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
I’ve had Dallas news anchor hair.

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] I’ve had 80’s stay at home mom severe haircut. I had something that looked… I don’t know, I can’t describe it. It was like a little poof on the side of my head?

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] And all of these were white ladies and they had no… idea how to cut Asian hair.

Bellamy
Oh, dear. Oh dear.

Ashia
Oh, trying to cut my curly, stick straight, very coarse, thick… somehow combo hair. I ended up looking like a mix of Grace Jones [laughter] – severe flat top, iconic look, and Scully from Brooklyn 99. But not nearly as attractive as either one of them.

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] So today, on good ideas to avoid – Flowbee haircuts. [laughter]

Bellamy
Flowbee haircuts. [laughter] Don’t do it.

Ashia
And yet, in two years, I’m going to forget and come back to it. And be like “it wasn’t that bad. Maybe I can do it.”

[laughter] It was flat on top but also it was uneven, so higher on one side. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] But I just want to say because I am laughing hysterically. But also, I have also given myself a bad haircut and I just keep it up all the time covered. So [laughter]

Ashia
I default to having a haircut that exists to make other people laugh, but this was… this was almost a cruelty I have done to myself. [laughter]

Bellamy
Yeah, like it wasn’t the intention. Yeah, there’s no coming back from it. I think it’s different when my arms are still functioning. Anytime I want to fix my haircut. I can fix it. I’m just like, it’s so low on my priority list. Just won’t do it.

Ashia
YEah. I want to go outside without a hat on sometime.

Yeah.

And I cannot. And what happens when we start having playdates with people where they want to come inside my house? And, I don’t know, it’s 80 degrees? I’m inside my house, I have to take off my hat! I don’t know, I’m planning.

Bellamy
I think you just say that it’s a family tradition to keep a knit haton during dates.

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] It’s where you store the snacks.

Ashia
I’ll be like “If I take this hat off, you’re just not going to be able to take me seriously.” [laughter]

Bellamy
Right. [laughter] You don’t want to know what’s under here. Don’t want to know. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] It’s just, it’s bad. I actually wore a scarf on my head for like six months once because I got one very bad haircut and I had to go in for a job interview. So like, I went for the job interview wearing the scarf. And then I just kept it on for six months. And then I took it off when it was long enough for my hair to grow. And they’re like, “Oh, you have hair …and not cancer?” [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] Yeah, they’re like, I don’t know what’s happening here.

Ashia
And I don’t know I can’t pull off a scarf very well. I look ridiculous. It does not look elegant and pretty on me. You pull off a scarf very nicely.

Bellamy
Thank you so much has many years of practice.

Ashia
[laughter] Practice for your face?

Bellamy
[laughter] I have scarf-face. It’s a little like scarface but not. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]

Okay. This segment has to end! [laughter]

[laughter]

Ashia
SO! This is a hard sell for anyone on the fence about joining the luminary brain trust. Because every week we have a Friday failure party. And this is this this week’s failure! There will be pictures of me and my parents, Grace Jones and Scully from Brookly 99.

Bellamy
[laughter] but also like -what if the way we we told genetics was by haircuts? [laughter]

Ashia
I made Bellamy cry. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] So funny! So funny.

[laughter] But like ‘Yeah, I know tha’s their mom because…her haircut… [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] I made Bellamy cry so hard she’s using her scarf to wipe her tears.

Bellamy
[laughter] The real purpose of scarface is to wipe my tears wheneve rI laugh really hard. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] This is just a podcast with like 15 solid minutes of us laughing and you’re like “GET TO IT.” [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] I think it’s worth it.

Ashia
I like the overcast app, you can skip and speed things up. It’s nice. It’s helpful to listen to podcasts where folks can’t get a grip!

Okay. Doo doo doo doo doo. That’s the end of good ideas.. to avoid!

Bellamy
Thank goodness [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] You’re gonna rip a lung. I saw on the news last night a guy ripped his lung from masturbating too hard.

Bellamy
Oh no! Oh dear! Also how did the end up on the news?! [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
Who’d he tell?! [laughter]

Ashia
This is gonna weaponize the anti-fap movement, where they’re like “You’ll go blind and you’ll rip a lung!” [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
Masturbate early, often, and maybe a little gentler.

Bellamy
[laughter] Right [laughter]

Ashia
Is that a HIPAA violation? [laughter]

Bellamy
That’s what I’m saying! Like hello HIPAA!. Like, what? Who did he tell?

Ashia
You know, he left and he posted it right on Reddit as soon as he got home.

Bellamy
Right, right. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] Like, “HEY GUYS,

Bellamy
“Guess what I did!” [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] Okay, well, umm.. swift healing sir. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] No comment, sir.

Ashia
[laughter] Oh, and you know, I also wanted to give a quick shout out before we forget, I started this new process where I’m like, “Okay, everybody in my community, I’m gonna keep posting stuff, but I’m gonna need some feedback because it feels like I’m shouting into a void. And it’s making me a little bit anxious.”

So I now have calls to action that are like, “Just click a thing, or do a response or anything, make a comment.”

Comments are really nice, it’s just so wonderful, even if it’s just like a thumbs up – so great. But there’s specific people – Rebecca, Rachel, Michelle, Caitlin, Lynette, Adrienne, and Megan all made these lovely comments with feedback that I can use! And make things better!

And I am so thank-you!

Aww, yay! [clapping]

Yaaay! Now, when I get these Patreon alerts, those little numbers at the top when I log in, instead of getting a number and being like, “Oh, no, something terrible.”

Because it’s usually something terrible. Usually, right? Now, it’s like, “Oh, someone left a comment!” And if there’s one terrible thing, it’s okay, because there’s four nice things!

Bellamy
Yeah. You make such a good point. It reminds me of what we talked about last week, but you make the point – if all you ever see is, Oh, you’re making four less dollars per month, because so-and-so left your Patreon.

It is a little… a lot… disheartening over time. I have such a hard time getting people to actually comment on Patreon. Thus far, mostly unsuccessful.

Ashia
There’s so many places to comment. We have websites, we have the podcast posts, we have Patreon. We have our little individual groups on different spaces. So many places to comment! Just let us know you’re alive!

Bellamy
Yes, yes, please.

Ashia
Okay, and then that helps us know what to focus on. Because we end up doing a billion things because we don’t know – how many people are following this one thing that we’re doing? If no one responds to say “Focus on this, this is helping.” Then we end up having to keep doing all of the irrelevant stuff.

So feedback is important and lovely. Thank you. I really appreciate you guys. Yay!

Okay, so what we’re talking about? Ohhh… being parents who smother our children. Okay. So back to it to seriousness. [clears throat]

Bellamy
Yes. Seriousness.

Ashia
Okay. I promised to help everyone recognize the three creepy parenting habits that slowly destroy your relationship as your kids get older. That’s like a nice click-baity thing, right? keeps you engaged.

Yup.

They’re like, spinning through all the laughter like, “GET. TO. IT.” [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
You promised to tell me how I’m creepy. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] How am I ruining my kid?! I must know!

Ashia
[laughter] Okay, this is gonna be a life-changing podcast. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] For some of you, it will be. I’m sure of it.

Ashia
Four people are gonna go out and buy a Flowbee.

Yep.

Bellamy
And everyone will know how not to tear their lung. Doin’ our good deeds for today.

Ashia
So there’s 1-2-3

Trying to be our kids friends

Having porous boundaries and preventing our kids pain for our own comfort

And then emotional incest. Eghh! Which is expecting to be privy to everything about your kids – what’s going on emotionally with them, and then also over-sharing with them.

So we can go into a little bit more depth into all of these.

So trying to be our kids friends: because friends are supposed to be like this thing that we want to be with people? But – and I love my mom, very good mom. But she used to routinely be like, “Are we friends?”

And you have to say yes, because she’s your mom, and she has power over you and be like, “Yeah, we’re friends.”

But dude, I don’t want a friend. I want a mom. [laughter]

Bellamy
Right.

Ashia
And also friends has to involve some level of acknowledging your power or having some power with each other, and you can leave a friendship, and your friend can’t destroy your life? [laughter] It’s like your boss being like, “we’re good friends.” We’re like, “Aaahhh…?”

Bellamy
Hmm. Not so much.

Ashia
Yeah, so consider it – maybe don’t be your kids friend. Maybe it’s possible with older kids when they’re adults and they have some power to go no-contact if they need to. But I feel like it’s actively unhealthy to try and be our kids friends when they’re, younger. Our kids ages.

Bellamy
Yeah, yep, I agree.

Ashia
So yeah, don’t try and be their friends. Get other friends. Get your own friends.

Bellamy
You need your own friends.

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
Like imagine. And that’s also so silly because imagine if I was like “My best friend is this seven year old boy,” like what?

Ashia
[laughter] I once dated the guy whose mom was his best friend. And it was…. weird.

Bellamy
I can imagine it would be?

[laughter] No. [laughter]

No, no, thank you.

Ashia
My best friend is seven year old. Yeah, it’s always a little bit interesting. You know, like you have age gaps in romantic relationships. And you’re like, “This person is 30 years younger than me.” and like, what do you talk about?

I get along with my kids, I love talking with them and stuff. But – they’re not my friends. I’m routinely telling them, I am not your playmate. I am the person that keeps you safe and alive. So I can’t watch you play Minecraft for 10 hours. This is both for me and for you. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] Yeah. It’s for the greater good of society. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] Okay – and porous boundaries. We understand the concept of boundary pushers – everyone’s talking about boundaries. Very few of us know how to build them, I’m still working on it.

But this concept of porous boundaries really gets in our way. Because we have a hard time, especially in our community where we feel so strongly about inclusion and seeing our neighbor as ourselves and globalism.

We’re always pushing to dissolve the identities between us, as opposed to just identifying – who are we, who are the people around me, who are the people I’m trying to help? And just being clear on where we start, and they begin? We end and they begin?

And we do this with our kids. When they’re little, our kids feel like a piece of our body that has been ripped out. And this isn’t just for biological kids, this is adopted kids, too, right?

Our kids are a part of us. It’s like an organ that is near and dear to us. And if any damage happens to them, it’s so painful. It’s like your arm just leapt off and just started playing with the kitchen knives. [laughter]

So, but that boundary, it has to you have to build stronger boundaries. And it’s very painful. You actually have to create distance between you and your kids. And you have to create an idea of oh, “This is a me issue. This is a me problem. This is my decision and action and my history.” And that’s their decisions and actions and history.

So we always have, I don’t know, I have very porous boundaries, and I’m working on plugging up those holes.

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
But what happens with tendencies for codependency – where we need other people to rely on us, which is just parenting. [laughter]

How do we keep our parenting relationships from becoming a codependent relationship? Because I don’t think anyone wants to be that parent who’s like, butting in on their kids… I don’t know, honeymoon? Whatever intimate things that they do?

Aa codependent relationship is always about taking care of others because their discomfort hurts us – not actually about the other person, if that makes sense. There’s great books about it. We talked about the Luminary Brain Trust a lot. But basically, Google “porous boundaries” and “how to not [unintelligible] children,” that’s our call to action.

Okay, and then there’s also emotional incest – eeweww!

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] Which is – I forgot the word for ‘incest’ while I was writing up these notes. I was like, (the word where cousins marry each other, but emotionally?) [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
So, emotional incest is still abuse, because that concept of our kids having to take on the mental and emotional labor of caring for us in a way that is not appropriate for them. And the same thing is as our kids grow, like us expecting to be privy to stuff that they would tell their friends, or their lovers, or their colleagues, and expecting to be connected to that part of their lives, it’s actually kind of harmful to them.

So getting clear with our kids about “Oh, that’s something you can discuss with a friend” or even just making sure that they have a security network. That is standard 101 on teaching our kids about consent and grooming and protecting them from predators, is helping them to establish a security network of people they can talk to.

Particularly people who we are not personally connected with. Because if we cross a line, they need a safe person to go to. So this is already something we’ve already started. So why not be like, “Hey, I’m willing to listen to if you want but…”

I tell my kids, without going into too much detail – I’m like, “You don’t want this memory of… doing this in front of me. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
Like, I know you think it’s fine now, just trust me. You’re just gonna want to do that alone in your room.

Right. [laughter]

Okay, so how do we stop being creepy? [laughter] I don’t know, Bellamy if you have any ideas off the top of your head before I infodump? How do you not be creepy?

Bellamy
How to not be creepy. Um, I don’t know. I’m just trying to trying to think through it realistically. I’ve had the weird fortune of being around so many families and in people’s homes and working with families and working with kids and… people are so… this is gonna sound judgmental. It could be. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] soccer ball parenting?

Bellamy
[laughter] Yeah, that, like, people are just so willing to completely deny their own kids failability and – just truth and humanity in a way? Kids are human, which means they make mistakes. You don’t have to lie about what they did. You don’t have to pretend it didn’t happen. You don’t have to always be making excuses. And you don’t have to interject yourself into every single thing that happens with a kid.

I don’t know. I just feel like how to stop being creepy is like – Don’t! Like, back up! They’re whole separate people.

Ashia
[laughter]

Bellamy
Like get… like, [laughter] back up!

They’re separate people doing separate things. And at the same time, of course, of course, I protect my kids in a million different ways every day. And also, I just know that – not even just mistakes. They’re gonna make mistakes. And then also people are going to make mistakes in their direction. And there is no protecting them from everything.

I’ve had other parents just lie to my face about things that happened with kids. And I saw it happen. But if you’re so convinced that your kid has to be perfect, because you have to be perfect, then we’re getting nowhere, and it is – I don’t know!

How to not be creepy is just don’t be creepy.

[laughter]

Sit down somewhere and see what happens. Sometimes I just sit back and see what happens. And see, how do they handle things? Because you don’t know. How do you know your kid can handle things, or deal with things, or manage things if you never allow them the space to do it. Or to figure it out.

Ashia
Yeah, and I think part of it is because we start out having to do everything for them. Like when my kids were little and they were fighting. At some point I would have to interject before it got way out of hand, right?

But then at some point, you have to stop. Right? So when they’re 15 years old, you’re not running into the room if they’re having a mild argument and be like, “Okay, let’s facilitate this.” [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
But it’s hard to remember like, Okay, today is the day when I stop interjecting. Today’s the day I hand them the washcloth I’m like, “Okay, I’m just gonna walk you through this as you do it yourself.”

So I get a lot of people being like, “How do I make sure that they’re bathed?”

Just, you know, try it. Try letting them do it themselves. And then if they don’t, you can walk them through it. And if they can’t, then you keep washing them. And then you try again next week. It’s like you need a weekly reminder to be like, “Okay, what one thing – I want to try and see if they can handle even though it was a horrible disaster last week? And it’s just constant experimentation, which is exhausting and not fun.

Bellamy
But also be realistic. What is what’s the end of the world if they don’t get bathed? Exactly the way you would do it? That alone is like this sense of it has to be done the way I would do it or the way I want it done, or the way I’ve done it since they were born or whatever. Maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it doesn’t have to be that way. And also maybe there’s a process by which they learn to get it to that point.

Ashia
Yeah. Yeah, a long time ago when I published the thing about consent and like getting your kids consent for everything possible and they’re like, “Well, I need to bathe my children!” I’m like, maybe you don’t though.

Bellamy
[laughter] yeah

Ashia
Okay, so I’m thinking in terms of this- if we make it methodical – identifying our spheres of control. Just getting a piece of paper and writing it out and being a little bit clearer because it’s very easy to think, knowing how the activism that we do, and the way that we raise our kids is going to ripple out throughout history, right? What I do now impacts the climate, which impacts people all over the world.

So the internet, and the way that things work right now is we feel responsible for everything. So having a diagram and then writing all the things we’re responsible for, and then getting a little bit more realistic about how many things can you actually fit in your little shopping basket of stuff you can actually control?

And what do you influence? So it’s what you control is in the center. The middle circle is what do you influence? And then the outer circle is just shit beyond your control.

We can donate money and… I don’t know what else we can do about Ukraine, right? But, we can’t control what Russia is doing in Ukraine. Right? Most of us, I don’t know, Putin, if you’re listening to this, sit down. Back off! [laughter]

Bellamy
Back off. Back up. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] Just back off.

Bellamy
[laughter] Just back off.

Ashia
Right? Putin is a classic, classic helicopter parent. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
BURN! [laughter]

Bellamy
Okay, it’s gonna go on the record here and say no comment. [laughter]

Ashia
Is it too soon to joke about what an asshole Putin is? No, it’s always been a good time to joke at his expense.

Bellamy
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that’s evergreen.

Ashia
And we have to laugh about terrible things, that’s on the bingo chart. We promised.

Bellamy
Yeah. This is how we make it through.

Ashia
[breath] But also and I do want to say the President of Ukraine, that video of him dancing and like nine inch heels, hot.

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
He is… Glory to Ukraine. Okay.

So creating boundaries between our own identity, and decisions, and our actions and how our kids have their own identity, decisions, and actions – really understanding – back off. Separate people.

Put some put some, some stuff in between you guys. And then also we’ve been harping on this – when you’re supporting someone, let’s look it this through a lens of childism, right?

Where as an adult, we have the power. As children, we expect them to bend to our will and conform for our comfort. But asking if they want advice, like I’ve been trying to practice this for a long time, it’s much easier now that they’re out in the world and not stuck in our house isolation-style, where they’re having arguments with teachers and with other kids.

And I have to pause and be like, “Do you want advice you or do you just want to vent?” Unfortunately, all of his responses are growls and headbutts. So it’s very unclear! But at least I’m asking so I can model that for him when he is older and has a tendency to mansplain or infodump.

And then asking, like we said, in every single podcast, “What does support look like for you?” Right? Like maybe our support or barreling in and yelling at a teacher is not what they want. You know, treating your children like people!

Bellamy
They’re people to.

Ashia
Yeah, but also getting really explicit on the kind of support we will not provide. If we’ve always done it this way – if we’ve always washed all their dishes, and then one day we’re like “No, I’m not doing that.” And then you suddenly get angry at them – which guilty. that’s me. I’m just like, “I’M DONE WITH THIS FOREVER NOW.”

Bellamy
[laughter] You’re like it’s been nine years times 365 days. And today’s the day [laughter] where I’m [laughter] don’t have to take it anymore!

Ashia
I definitely remember having a six month old baby. And Q was doing something that babies do. And I was like, “Dude, we talked about this.”

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
I feel like it was not a weird thing for me to say at the time and then another mom happened to be watching and she just started laughing!

Bellamy
[laughter] That’s a very cute sentiment.

Ashia
It had not fully sunk into my head that once I told him one time, we will not be eating boogers off the floor – that is a thing, like you actually need to tell them over and over and over again?

Bellamy
Yeah, a couple years ago, I started asking C, “How long do you think I’ve been asking you to chew with your mouth closed?” and he was like “Probably about five or six years” [laughter] and I was like, sad. Please, please just close your fucking mouth! [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] They’re just gonna keep doing it until they get shamed by some other kid.

Bellamy
Yeah. Exactly.

Ashia
Everything we say does not matter until like one. One jerk kid makes a nasty comment. And then they’ll be lke “Oh! Oh! Somebody who MATTERS cares! Okay then!”

Bellamy
Right. [laughter] Yeah, and that alone is just such a good reminder to back off. The mouth, the chewing stuff, it’s, it’s annoying and it’s hard to eat with the sound of it to happening. But it’s such a good reminder that like we have some influence, but we definitely don’t have all the influence and sometimes you just gotta like, just let it go and let them be.

Ashia
Yeah. And we’re also allowed to be like, “You know what, that’s gross. I’m not eating with you.”

Bellamy
Right. I cannot partake. [laughter]

Ashia
You will not receive my friendship. [laughter]

Okay, so getting clear on what support you will no longer be providing with some notice, hopefully. But it’s also – it’s okay to get fed up because these dudes are annoying!

Bellamy
Yup.

Ashia
And then also don’t make your baggage their problem. No emotional incest. Eww,don’t do it, find some friends! We have our own little gathering spaces we have our accountability groups. Got When We Gather from Revolutionary Humans, Luminary Brain Trust – this is where we process that stuff.

Don’t put that on your kids. Bring it to other grownups who are also processing that stuff – playdates! I understand therapy is not accessible for everybody. Not everyone can find a therapist who understands them and is reasonable or afford it. So this is why the smaller groups like this are very helpful.

And just Yeah, show up for other people without expecting that they will show up for you. But I mean, it’s more likely that you’ll be able to make real grown up friends whose butts you don’t have to wipe.

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
Or maybe you do! Interdependence, disability care.

Bellamy
Who can say?

Ashia
Yeah. Wipe your friends butts if that’s what support looks like for them. I want to make sure I’m not potty shaming anyone.

So call to action! Bellamy has a substack newsletter. And she writes these amazing articles on it, because a lot of what she talks about is creating space, right? Like, I don’t know how to – the words you make are good words? And I can’t make my words… explain the words that you word?

Bellamy
[laughter] Why did you say it that way? [laughter]

Ashia
My brain’ss like “Oh, this automatically… go to Bellamy’s substack. This helps with the thing we’re talking about!” But I can’t find the…

Bellamy
It’s like, a weird, magical, like… is subvert the right word?

Ashia
Subversive? Yeah, see, I can’t call you weird and magical. But you can call yourself weird and magical.

Bellamy
I mean, but also it sounds conceited. So maybe I shouldn’t have. But [laughter]

Ashia
Weird and witchy! [laughter]

Bellamy
I mean, this is humble. I mean, in a humble way. It’s like, it’s weird. I’m not like, “Here are the things that are wrong with the world. And here’s what you can do.” I’m more so like, “Here are the things that are wrong with my life.” [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] In an interesting way!

Bellamy
[laughter] and I hope it inspires you to move throughout the land more compassionately.

Ashia
I’m in the boat with you. That’s that’s what it is. It’s like “I’m in the boat with you. You’re not the only one who’s having a hard time. But also we’ll get out of this.” There’s hope there’s hope in there, right.

Bellamy
Yeah.

Ashia
And then I also have this series on our Patreon feed in our little content library, which I’ll link to both of these things, about dismantling entitlement and raising resilient kids and a lot of what we talked about touches on this in a very shallow way.

But it goes into a deep, long rant about subversion, raising kids to have reasonable age appropriate pain and discomfort and being there for them and showing up in a way that is supportive, but not creepy.

So read those and/or commit – comment on the podcast, which is at BooksForLittles.com/podcast and you’ll find the episode at the top of the page. Or leave a voicemail to let us know you can connect with us on the anchor app or – I actually have a Google Voice number, so leave a voicemail.

Bellamy
Ask us questions!

Ashia
So leave a voicemail at 781-342-0486 and I think the voicemail will probably say something like Ashia Ray Photography or something very old.

Bellamy
Go for it.

Ashia
And I want people to let us know what is one decision, and in the consequences you are expecting / worried about, that you feel ready – or not quite ready – to hand off to your kid this month? THIS month, right?

So let’s look at this as an accountability process. We’re like, “Okay, I can do this one thing. I can have my kid wash their own cups. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
Scheduled their own damn playdates.

Bellamy
[laughter] Get on the phone, Billy. It’s time to make your playdates. [laughter]

Ashia
I’m not your secretary!! [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
Whenever I want to inspire them towards taking on some of the emotional labor there’s this book [The Tomtes’ Christmas Porridge]. There’s one about a woman tomte. And she’s like doing all the emotional labor of making sure that her husband gets his Christmas porridge. It’s such a good book. I talked about it in on the Books for Littles site [in the December Roundup]. Anyway. But that’s such a good book.

Like, do you see how this woman is running circles around these men? And they’re like, “Oh, we don’t want to be like that tomte.”

Okay, so the plan moving forward is: with spring being about building relationships so we can work towards that collective action in the summer. And moving forward. We’re going to put some links in the show notes. Again, that’s booksforlittles.com/podcasts on the top of the page.

And then listen: so Bellamy is going to have in When We Gather, she’s going to have a book club in a week or two. And we’re going to be discussing the first chapter of ‘all about love?’ Is that what it’s called?

Bellamy
Yep. By bell hooks.

Ashia
And this is really helpful for me – where it’s clarifying the difference between loving someone and caring for someone. There’s a nice clean line – or cleaner line there, which makes it interesting. Because if you don’t define what love looks like, then you might, you know, get some of those more porous boundaries?

Bellamy
Right.

Ashia
And maybe mpre abusive behavior and calling it love?

Bellamy
Most likely.

Ashia
Yeah. And then take accountability – join the Luminary Brain Trust. I do want to say that on April 30, which is less than two weeks away, I’m going to be doubling the rates. So if you want to get grandfathered in, that’s at patreon.com/booksforlittles, in the Luminary tier. All the tiers are doubling in price on on April 30. But if you want to get into the Luminary Brain Trust, which is currently a Facebook group, but it’s going to be moved over to the website soon, now is the time to join! And we talk about supremacy culture trauma stewardship, all the stuff you actually need to not be a creepy parent. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] I have one more thing to say about all of this – which is if you have more than one kid, please, please, please remember that they are different. And they need different things. And no matter what you’re deciding that you will or won’t do with one – it may not be what the other one needs. I think that’s very important.

Ashia
Yeah, it is really hard not to compare them and be like, “Well, your brother lost all of his baby teeth by this age. What are those?

Bellamy
[laughter] What’s wrong with you, kid?! Yeah. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] Knock those bad boys out! It’s hard to be the tooth fairy! [laughter]

Bellamy
[Laughter] I told my kids the other day. I was like, “Mmm. Your tooth fairy is… Woo, she sucks! She’s dropped the ball!” She dropped the ball about two years ago, never picked it back up. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] My younger one has been insisting he’s the tooth fairy since he was like two years old. He’s like, “It’s me.”

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
And then one time, we forgot to put a coin under his pillow. The next day, “He’s like, why didn’t she come?” and Nathan said something alluding to the idea of “Maybe she’s pissed that you are pretending to be her?” [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] Oh, that’s good. That’s good. It’s bad, but it’s good.

Ashia
He wrote an apology letter to her. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter] Oops. [laughter]

Ashia
[laughter] No, it’s okay, man. She doesn’t mind. [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]

Ashia
I had to write a letter back. “It’s totally okay, I just got caught in traffic.” [laughter]

Bellamy
[laughter]I think we could do a whole podcast about the Tooth Fairy and how it plays out in our homes. Because in my house, it’s very interesting, but we don’t have time for it now.

Ashia
Okay. Okay, I’ll put it in the notes. Okay. This is Bellamy and Ashia, signing off. Buh-bye!

Bellamy
Bye!